UpClose with Harold ‘Hal’ Fish 

Five-and-a-half years ago, Harold “Hal” Fish shot and killed a man while hiking in northern Arizona. The event launched a change in the state’s self-defense laws, drew national attention and made him a martyr among fervent supporters of the Second Amendment.

In 2004, Fish shot and killed Grant Kuenzli on a hiking trail near Strawberry, Arizona. Fish testified in court that he shot Kuenzli in self-defense after Kuenzli charged at him with his aggressive, unleashed dogs.
This year, Arizona courts overturned Fish’s conviction for second- degree murder. And his 10-year prison sentence was cut short after he spent more than three years in jail.

Fish is a retired high school Spanish teacher, devout follower of the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, husband, and father of seven children.

Out of the cell and onto the couch, Fish expressed his views on American justice, going to prison and the day that changed his life.

What do your neighbors think about all of this?
Several of them have moved. One was replaced with a family with one kid, and they are good friends with my boys, and I think they are OK with me. As far as I know, I don’t think Ms. Howard has any problem with her kids coming over or vice versa.

One fellow came over, who I didn’t even know before, and said “I’m your neighbor and I’ve heard about you, and we support you, and we’re thinking of you.”

The lady down on the corner, we had problems with her before so I think she’s still probably of the same persuasion. I don’t talk to her, and she doesn’t talk to me.

Have you been surprised by all the attention?
Yes. I have. What I think I detect from people is they are surprised I am not a real monster; that I am a real person just like them.

How was your experience in prison?
It was not all I thought it was going to be. It was not all bad, but being locked up is not good. I didn’t deserve to be there. I did resent it. I was away from my family. My life stopped.

The thing that surprised me the most was the actual treatment from the inmates. I had grown up on stories of people getting abused and raped in prison. I expected to see that and a lot of other things that didn’t turn out that way. What I found is that most inmates will tell you that they are guilty. But, a lot of them are way over-sentenced.

What also amazed me was the waste of resources. Why does the state have a doctor in custody and not let him help out? Why have attorneys in custody and not let them do something meaningful? There is almost no effort to look at the prison population as a resource. They just shove you in a cell and there you sit.

How did your experience – from day one on the trail to where you sit today – change your perspective on the legal system?
It’s kind of like finding out that your mother is a prostitute. You love the lady, but you say, “Well, gosh! There has got to be a better way of living than this!”

This is our system and we created it, but there has got to be a better way than this. Once the system gets you, there is almost no way that you can get out. Within the three years and five weeks I was in there, not once have I heard of someone having a successful appeal.

I’m amazed they waste the kind of money they do. Prisons could be a lot more self-sufficient, and they are a drag on the taxpayers that they don’t need to be. They used to have prison farms. They raised their own produce, beef, they made their own milk. They had prison rodeos and they used to do more to lessen the load on the taxpayer.

Now, it’s just all contracted out.

Did you have any meaningful experiences in prison?
When I left, I gave everything away, and it was a really neat thing.

Most people will never have a chance to do what I did.

When I left, I took the watch off my wrist and gave it to an inmate. I took the hat off my head and gave it to an inmate. I took the shoes off my feet – I came out in sandals – and gave them to an inmate. I gave them my food. I gave them my books. I gave them almost everything. Not because it felt good, but because I knew they couldn’t get it any other way. And if they couldn’t use it, they could sell it.

Do you think if you had had the benefit of the new self-defense law that you would have been convicted?
No. If we would have had the law the way it is now, especially at the appeals level where we could have introduced elements of his previous bad acts.

But the Court of Appeals ended up hitting the nail on the head. In this case they went to great lengths to write out an opinion that becomes bench law that can be used in other cases. They said that the evidence had been quote-unquote “sanitized.” In other words, they framed me. They picked and chose what they wanted to present. I still to this day have a hard time believing these people could be so nefarious, so dastardly.

The irony is that the cops were on my side. That’s never been looked at; what they did to the lead investigator. (NOTE: Coconino County Sheriff’s Department Detective Scott Feagen, who first interviewed Fish after the shooting and recommended that no charges be filed, was removed from the case. He reportedly has left the department and moved to Texas).

Prosecutors with Coconino County contend the intricacies of the self- defense law aren’t as important as some people have been led to believe. They charge that you acted unreasonably and killed a man. What do you say to that?
The big damage of the way the law was before is that we could not raise the issue of self-defense short of going to trial. At the preliminary hearing a judge makes a decision on whether there is enough to take the issue to trial or not. We could not bring up that it was a self-defense shooting. I had to go to trial to present that defense. That is now changed.

I wasn’t really afraid to go to trial, but I should have been. I didn’t understand that it would cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars and I would never get it back. No one ever explained that to me in civics class. No one said it would cost a hundred thousand dollars just to get started on the trial.

At that point, we mortgaged our home, sold property. We begged. We borrowed. I also didn’t know you had to pay for somebody to testify on your behalf, an expert witness. If you want a firearms person to come and explain things, you have to pay him. You have to pay for a detective. If you run out of money anywhere along the way, you’re SOL.

Your attorney can cross examine, but he can’t present any evidence by bringing in anybody unless you hire them.

If you’re pronounced not guilty, they don’t come back and say, “Gosh, Mr. Fish, we’re sorry that you had to go through this and it has cost you. We’ll write a check and make if even for you.” Nope. We got an education. No money, no justice. It is just that simple.

Did you ever have faith in the system?
I did! I always liked cops, and I still do. But I just can’t stand prosecuting attorneys anymore. On the other hand, I think defense attorneys go to heaven. The whole deck is stacked against them. We don’t realize it.

Remorse. Are you sorry for what you did?
I wish the whole thing never happened. It was never something I felt really good about. Nobody ever heard me walking around like that.

Having to shoot somebody is a crummy thing. Since I have come home, there is a channel on Direct TV where they do self-defense things.

They teach people how to handle a firearm and what to do. The thing that it is missing is that they don’t teach people how it feels when you are standing over the man you just killed and you look at that body and you took that man’s life.

Maybe he had it coming. But you aren’t going to feel good about it.

You don’t beat your chest and say, “good group.” Or, “great shot.” No.

You look at the man and say, “Oh, my gosh!” But, I didn’t have any choice. You go through a lot of second-guessing, but you will not feel good. I guarantee it.

That is where these programs go wrong. They’re laughing and slapping each other on the back and having a good time. I didn’t feel good about it. I don’t think most people do. It’s a terrible thing.

Have you fired a gun since then?
No. I can’t. I’m a felon. We have no firearms in the house, and I can’t be in possession. If I have possession of a firearm, I go back to prison.

But your sentence was reversed.
But the charges have not been dismissed yet. Can’t vote. Can’t leave the state.

The thing I kind of resent is that I was always active with the Boy Scouts, and I can’t do that right now. They didn’t say that I can’t, but you have to pass a criminal background check. I can’t go to our Temple in Mesa. You have to have a recommendation, and right now the church is saying, “No. We’re going to wait until everything is worked out.”

There’s the jobs. Imagine how the interview would go. I lost my teaching credentials. I lost my concealed-weapons permit. If you start laying it out, there are a lot of things you don’t think about. The term in the law, I found out, is “civilly dead.” I’m civilly dead.

Don’t get me wrong. I am not complaining. I get to eat my own food and sleep in my own bed. I won’t complain about tuna noodle casserole ever again. But, I’m really kind of in limbo. I’m not in prison and not really back to where I was. It is halfway.

Why do you think you were found guilty? Why do you think you were convicted by a jury?
I think that there is a presumption in the minds of Americans that if someone is brought into court and charged that they must be guilty.

We had at least two or three school teachers on that jury; some government workers, and I think those people tend to trust the government decision even more. I think that they saw themselves as working for the government and facilitating a decision reached by people who had really looked at things and knew that no matter what I’d say, I was as guilty as could be. They’re not supposed to do that, but I think it is really hard, if not impossible, to not do that.

And we were inhibited from giving all the information about Mr. Kuenzli (the victim). They never knew the full story. They only got one side. And it was the side the government was giving.