Despite term limits, electronic advances that speed communication and a passing of the good-old-boys era, success as a lobbyist, many will tell you, boils down to one unwavering trait — honesty.

Arizona Capitol Times interviewed a number of lobbyists to get their views on a profession.

Michelle Allen Ahlmer, executive director of the Arizona Retailers Association, knows the needs of retailing from the bottom up. She’s been with the association for 12 years, was a paralegal in business practices for eight years, and her parents owned a retail store. “I was raised in retail,” she says.

To maintain credibility as a lobbyist, Ms. Ahlmer says, “You need to be honest and as direct as possible and it really helps to have a philosophy.” There is a difference, she says, between lobbying for an organization with a primary focus, as she does, and a contract lobbyist who may represent myriad clients with a variety of philosophies.

A combination of publicly funded campaigns through the Clean Elections process and term limits has changed the way lobbyists and lawmakers interact, she says. “It’s not as easy to get a feel for incoming legislators,” Ms. Ahlmer says. “With no campaign contributions, there are not as many candidate interviews because they’re concentrating on their constituents and their districts.”

Although term limits bring in a fresh crop of legislators every two years, many of the issues remain the same. “Some new lawmakers come in thinking there’s a new way to make a widget,” Ms. Ahlmer says. “We know it’s been tried and it doesn’t work. The institutional knowledge is not from the ranks [of legislators], it’s from staff or lobbyists.”

Identifying a mentor is easy. “I have relied heavily on the former executive director of the association — George Allen, my dad,” Ms. Ahlmer says. “He’s still my silent partner.” Without mentioning names, she says she admires lobbyists who have a calming effect.

Representing retailers can be trying at times, she says, because owners aren’t always eager to share inside details of their business for legal and competitive reasons.

Dealing with a difficult lawmaker can be a challenge. “You have to find qualities in everyone — lawmakers and lobbyists,” Ms. Ahlmer says. “You have to manage that relationship so you don’t have regrets in the future. Those who are opposing you today may be supporting you tomorrow. Stay on the issues and away from personal attacks. People feel passionate about something, and you have to find what’s at the root of that passion.”

• • •

Maria Baier, who represents Valley Partnership, a 16-year-old nonprofit, pro-development organization with 600 member businesses and groups, has seen lobbying from both sides of the desk for 10 years, dating back to her executive staff roles with the Fife Symington and Jane Dee Hull administrations. She’s been with Valley Partnership for a year.

“It’s important to honor your opposition’s legislative viewpoints, and to try your best to fairly educate the person you’re lobbying,” Ms. Baier says. “My experience from the other side of the desk is that people present one side of the story. Then it takes more time to track down more information. Give me both sides, tell me why your side is better public policy.”

The fastest and easiest way to lose credibility, she says, is to launch personal attacks on your opponent. “That is easily discovered and universally disliked,” she says.

Among her mentors is Steve Betts, president of SunCor Development Co., “who always tries to build a consensus and has good instincts at the Legislature.” She also mentions “Barry Aarons, who understands how important details are, Nancy Stump, who understands how important respect is, and Joe Lane, former speaker, who was under-appreciated for understanding the process.”

Never, she says, ignore a difficult legislator. “They all have a vote, and my sense is you’ve got to touch base with everyone,” Ms. Baier says. “One holdout can spread pretty quickly if they feel they’re not being respected.”

The toughest part of lobbying, she says, “is combating a simple tag line with important public policy considerations.” She’s talking about sound bites.

“It sounds good, but it’s hardest to refute a simple idea with a sound public policy issue,” Ms. Baier says. An example could be taking away an economic development tool from cities because it has been abused. “You have to refute a couple of instances of abuse with a whole decade of how the tool benefited cities. The hardest thing is explaining the difference between use and abuse of some of the tools that government has.”

Her best advice to novice lobbyists: “Remember that reasonable minds can differ, and don’t take anything personally.”

• • •

Steven Barclay, a recent addition to the law firm of Jennings, Strouss & Salmon, began his lobbying career in 1984, about the time the rules on contributions were changing. “Then the leadership had more power, could distribute contributions to other legislators,” Mr. Barclay says. “But they did away with bundling contributions, and leadership couldn’t control things as much. We started to see more independent thought in caucus. You cut the purse strings and people [individual legislators] are not so afraid to speak up.”

Yet, in some ways conditions at the Legislature haven’t changed much. “Pressures brought to bear on legislators are significant,” he says. “It’s a steep learning curve with some 1,500 bills to consider. They rely on staff — they’re the long termers. And there are no term limits for lobbyists so we become quasi-staffers.”

As a lobbyist with multiple clients and issues, he knows he won’t have the support of every legislator on every issue. “You have to learn about your audience, what’s driving them,” Mr. Barclay says. “The last thing you want to do is make an enemy of someone. You try to win with dignity and lose with dignity so you can say, I did the best for my client.

“Occasionally there’s a personality issue. You find other ways to approach that individual. Sometimes you send in a different person, use a team approach.”

The most difficult part of lobbying, he says, is a tendency in January to think the session is a sprint. “It’s not,” he says. “it’s a marathon. You have to pace yourself.”

Mr. Barclay says he picked up many lobbying tips from such colleagues as Bob Fannin, the late Charlie Stevens, Allan Stanton and Jim Bush. “Upstanding people and each had his own style,” Mr. Barclay says. “They treated everybody well, including the security guards and the cleaning staff. It’s Golden Rule stuff.”

Success boils down to credibility. “It’s a most precious commodity,” he says. “Keep your word and tell the whole story. It’s better if they hear it from you than from your adversary. Have good listening skills. Have knowledge of the subject and the process — the steps along the way. That’s where the battles are won and lost. Have a reputation for persistence. But, you have to know when it’s strategically better to call a truce and live to fight another day.”

• • •

Kristen Boilini, who lobbied in the Rose Mofford and Fife Syming
ton administrations before forming her own firm, KRB Consulting Inc., in 2000, says establishing long-term relationships is important, even in this age of term limits and revolving-door legislatures.

“You have to understand the needs and wants of your clients and what kind of reputation they want around the Legislature,” Ms. Boilini says. “At the end of the session, you want to leave your clients’ reputation intact. It’s not a no-holds-barred situation. You have to come back next year and many of the same people will be there.”

In working with lawmakers, she says, a lobbyist should provide good and timely information while understanding what the opposition is saying and being able to rebut. If your issue is going to cost money and it’s a lean year, it’s better to wait for better times and the possibility of building a coalition with a long-term perspective, Ms. Boilini says.

The lobbying process has gotten more sophisticated in recent years with an ever-increasing number of lobbyists plying their trade at the Capitol. “There’s not a handful of people and issues,” she says. “It improves the level of discussion. You hear more sides of an issue. On the other hand, it makes it more competitive. You’re competing with more interests. Also, there are more women down here. When I started, there were fewer women lobbyists. It was a good-old-boys network, and that has changed. It’s a good thing.”

Ms. Boilini says educating legislators on issues becomes a bit more difficult with the turnover forced by term limits. “A number of legislators understand that lobbyists have information, but there’s always a few who think lobbyists only provide spin,” she says. “Generally if they want information they need to talk to us because they’re understaffed at the state level. Hopefully we’ll give them a straight answer, and they learn quickly. Building trust takes time.”

But don’t avoid difficult lawmakers, she says, adding, “The worst thing you can do is hide. You’re going to need them on something else. You have to know where they are on an issue and make arguments that might move them, but you can’t twist their arm. You have to respect their position.”

• • •

Barry Dill, who has been with Policy Development Group Inc., since 1997, and before that was a key aide to then-Sen. Dennis DeConcini, an Arizona Democrat, compares lobbying to journalism. Mr. Dill, who covered sports in the mid-1980s for the Phoenix Gazette before entering politics, says, “Credibility is everything. Your word is your guiding principle. Those who aren’t successful usually are the ones who can’t abide by that. Just as in journalism, you never lie.”

All a lobbyist needs is the ability and the opportunity to present a case in a factual manner. “We’re not a high-pressure firm,” Mr. Dill says. “We take on clients we believe have issues with government agencies, and we seek to present the facts before key decision makers.”

Mr. Dill recalls the 1970s and 1980s when Republicans dominated virtually all of state government and there were a few powerful lobbyists who got things done. “What we see in the world of corporations and associations, no one lobby firm or lobbyist is key to getting something done,” he says. “Most major projects are done with several groups that have extensive contacts. Democrats are involved. Everybody does not just rely on a kingmaker Republican lobbyist. Issues are not done on a partisan basis. And it helps to have a Democrat on the ninth floor.”

He says Arizona still leans slightly red (Republican, as opposed to blue for Democratic). “I think it’s more purple,” Mr. Dill says. “I try to operate in a purple world.” Mr. Dill says the only intelligent attribute a lobbyist needs is to be able to count — 31 votes in the House and 16 in the Senate needed for passage. “That’s our focus,” he says. “How we work these days is different. We bring together teams. Everyone knows almost everyone. You try to bring in someone who knows a difficult legislator in the hope that we will have an opportunity to present our case.”

Among Mr. Dill’s mentors, he says, are Ron Ober, his colleague at Policy Development Group, Mr. DeConcini, Eddie Basha and the late attorney John P. Frank. “I hope at the end of the day I can even remotely represent what they meant to the state. Do the right thing, even if it’s unpopular, always with grace and dignity.”

• • •

David Jones, who represents the Arizona Contractors Association, has real-life insight into lobbying legislators. He’s a former member of the Indiana House of Representatives and a former Indianapolis City Council member. His first lobbying role was with the Associated General Contractors.

“I’ve gone 180 degrees on term limits,” Mr. Jones says. “Originally I thought that the committee chairs were in for 18 or 20 years and it was time to give a younger guy a chance. They ought to have term limits. But today, from a lobbying standpoint, you lose a lot of history, a lot of capable people. No university can teach that on-the-job experience. Unfortunately with term limits you lose some good people and I’m not sure that’s the best way to go.”

A change Mr. Jones welcomes is the ability to communicate and respond electronically. He credits his son, Brett Jones, who is the association’s director of government affairs, with bringing him up to speed on the benefits of electronics. “When I was a legislator, I received tons of mail and they all said the same thing. Today while legislators are in committee they have a laptop. A legislator can kill two birds at one time. It broadens the ability to communicate and that’s a very positive aspect.”

An advantage Mr. Jones has is that as a former legislator, “I can put myself in their shoes. Been there, done that. I understand their perspective. I can bridge the gap once they find out I was a former legislator with the ability to look at things through their eyes.”

A six-year resident of Arizona, he treasures the working relationship he had with former Registrar of Contractors Michael Goldwater: “I appreciated his fairness and the integrity he operated under in representing the consumer and the construction industry.” He also gives Governor Napolitano high marks.

Mr. Jones’s advice for young lobbyists: “One of the worst things you can do is mislead. Know your facts, know what you’re talking about. Often legislators will look to you about an issue in your industry. They want insight. You have to explain nuances. Your word is all you have to market. Of course, there can be misunderstandings, but if you intend to mislead you’re in jeopardy of not having a longtime career.”

• • •

Jim Klinker, executive director of the Arizona Farm Bureau who hung up his lobbying hat in 2001, describes the difference between a contract lobbyist who may represent numerous clients and one like himself who lobbied for a single entity — an association of farmers and ranchers.

“A contract lobbyist has to be careful,” Mr. Klinker says. “You have to recognize when your clients might be in opposition with each other on an issue. It’s not credible. It’s a huge challenge, and you have to be aware of that. There are standards for attorneys who are lobbyists, but contract lobbyists don’t have the same standards. They’re anxious to build a client base. Being an association lobbyist is easier.&#8221
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He talks about the proliferation of contract lobbyists. “Now every city, every county, every special group has their own lobbyist,” he says.

Mr. Klinker, who joined the Farm Bureau in 1974 and began lobbying in 1979, says a difference among legislators today is that because of term limits “they want to do everything in their first year. They want to be a vice chair or chairman. When I started in 1979, you earned those chairs.”

With many legislators leaving after eight years, institutional knowledge is lost on such issues as water and state trust land, he says. “Those issues have been before us for generations, but when legislative policy-makers turn over, you lose that continuity,” Mr. Klinker says.

Former lawmakers he respected include Stan Turley, Boyd Tenney, Jim Cooper, Jamie Sossaman, Ed Sawyer, Frank McElhaney, Bill Swink and Polly Getzwiller. “In essence, they were my mentors — stable, high-class, down-to-earth — all of them.”

A lobbyist, Mr. Klinker says, is a people person. “I always wear a Mickey Mouse watch just to keep my perspective. Always tell the truth. Always be credible. Make sure a legislator knows both sides of an issue.”

Another piece of advice: “Never lobby someone in the bathroom. It’s not good taste. I will never do that.”

He mentions the annual House-Senate softball game sponsored by a group of lobbyists as a 30-year tradition that generates fun and good will.

“After lobbying for 22 years, I didn’t think I’d miss being there until midnight to make sure somebody doesn’t screw it up,” Mr. Klinker says. “But I do miss it, the wrangling.”

• • •

Larry Landry of Landry, Creedon & Associates started working in state government in 1978 in the Bruce Babbitt administration as an executive assistant to the governor and then became head of the Office of Economic Planning and Development (OEPAD), predecessor of the Arizona Department of Commerce. He launched his firm in 1983.

To maintain credibility, Mr. Landry lists these traits: honesty, integrity, brevity and humor. “If you don’t know, don’t guess,” he says. “Understand the opposition argument thoroughly so when a legislator asks what’s the other side saying, you understand and can counter. And persistence. Never quit. That’s huge. Understand how hard a job it is to be a state legislator. There are more than 1,200 bills — that’s an awful lot of legislation for part time legislators. You have to have some empathy, and don’t take it personally when someone votes against one of your projects. Finally, understand the process. Know when to go for closure, which is whenever you can get it.”

He tells of a tip from the late and legendary House Majority Leader Burton Barr: “Listen to what they don’t say.” Mr. Landry explains. He was in a meeting with Mr. Barr and several lobbyists who were pushing proposals regarding health care. After a 90-minute session, Mr. Barr congratulated the lobbyists on their presentation and seemed really upbeat. Their proposals produced five bills, but only one received a hearing and nothing passed.

“He never said, ‘I will sponsor it, I will vote for it,’ ” Mr. Landry says. “They did not listen to what he didn’t say.”

Mr. Landry considers Mr. Barr and Mr. Babbitt as his mentors. “Burton Barr, because I was in several meetings with him and he always said, ‘What’s in the best interest of the state≠’ Whether it was roads or parks or water, he would really focus on what was good public policy.” Regarding Mr. Babbitt, “He was bright and hard working and redefined the role of governor in Arizona,” Mr. Landry says.

Changes Mr. Landry has observed include: “There is less congeniality among members. It’s a harsher atmosphere. People freely socialized in the past. Today there’s more ideology.”

Term limits means more of a changeover at the committee chairman level. “It takes more time to resolve issues with new leadership,” Mr. Landry says.

One aspect of lobbying that hasn’t changed: “It’s a meritocracy,” Mr. Landry says. “Work hard and you’ll do well.”

• • •

Janet Regner has lobbied a variety of clients for Jamieson & Gutierrez for six years, and for eight years before that served as executive director of the Arizona Community Action Association, a position that also included lobbying.

“I believe the process is much more open than it used to be,” she says. “Rule changes and the posting of agendas have really helped. It makes the job easier.”

When she lobbied for the Community Action Alliance and was based in Tucson, she recalls driving from the Old Pueblo to the Capitol only to find that a hearing had been canceled or a bill had been pulled from consideration at the last minute.

“That doesn’t happen as much — at least not on purpose,” Ms. Regner says. “Now the posting of bills on the Internet helps immensely. It helps Joe Citizen to be able to access the Legislature. From a professional lobbying standpoint, it doesn’t change my life much, but it’s important for the general democracy of the process.”

She finds keeping up with the fast pace her biggest challenge. “Keeping everybody happy and all the bases covered,” she says.

Regarding do’s and don’ts, Ms. Regner says, “Take out the book I had in kindergarten. Be respectful of people. They’re doing their job like you are. They may not agree with you, but it’s not personal. It’s important to always tell the truth. Some may have a different interpretation of what that is. These are people who go home at night to their own family, they have their own lives, and so do we. Sometimes that gets lost, and we get categorized as lobbyists and they as legislators — in a negative connotation.”

She says she can’t think of any legislator who is absolutely hostile about a certain issue, but if she finds one, she’ll probably avoid that person. “I’m not going to focus on somebody who has made up their mind,” Ms. Regner says.

Choosing a mentor is easy. “My father, Frank Stead,” she says. “He had a life-long interest in politics. He was the election commissioner in Springfield, Illinois. He had a healthy respect for government. I can’t think of anybody he didn’t get along with, even if he didn’t agree with their politics.”

(Ms. Regner was interviewed as she was about to travel to Illinois for her father’s funeral. He died at the age of 90 after suffering a stroke.) —