The answers provided by former Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas and his deputy Lisa Aubuchon during three days of testimony this week maintained a consistent theme: It was nothing personal.

Attorneys seeking to disbar Thomas and his loyal deputy are trying to prove they were fueled by animosity and revenge when they accused judges, politicians, county managers and private attorneys of corruption and conspiracy in a series of criminal cases and a civil racketeering, or RICO, suit.

Thomas and Aubuchon admitted to none of it and declared that their well-documented litany of contentious disputes with the county officials did not skew their judgment as they pressed forward with the criminal cases and the RICO suit.

“I thought we were seeing a travesty unfolding in our courts,” Thomas said, comparing what he saw during that time to a Third World dictatorship.

In one exchange between Thomas and attorney Jamie Sudler, who is representing the State Bar of Arizona, Sudler seemed momentarily stunned when Thomas said all of the chaos was actually “enlightening” to his judgment rather than limiting, leaving Sudler to repeat his answer.

“Your judgment was enlightened by what had happened?” Sudler asked.

Thomas and Aubuchon’s testimony nearly wraps up the State Bar’s case against them, which began Sept. 12. The two defendants and former Deputy County Attorney Rachel Alexander, who is facing suspension, will begin calling their witnesses in the next round of testimony.

Sudler and his colleague, John Gleason, allege that Thomas and Sheriff Joe Arpaio retaliated against people who crossed them and Aubuchon and Alexander did their bidding for them.

Despite their self-assurance, Thomas and Aubuchon had difficulty in articulating crimes the 15 defendants in the RICO case committed. The suit alleged that four senior judges conspired with the Board of Supervisors, county managers and two private attorneys to cover up investigations into County Supervisor Don Stapley and the financing of a planned court tower.

New York University professor Ronald Goldstock, an expert on RICO suits, testified earlier that the crimes that serve as the basis for the suit have to be described in specific detail in the filing to be properly alleged.

Sudler wanted to know, for example, which specific act of bribery was alleged in the suit. Presiding Disciplinary Judge William O’Neil called for a recess so Thomas could read the suit and Sudler asked him again when the proceeding resumed if there was a specific act of bribery alleged.

“No, not clearly,” Thomas said.

Sudler went through a similar exercise with Aubuchon, asking her to describe the individual crimes and she repeatedly was unable to provide specific details, except to say the allegations were based on patterns of actions of individuals.

“These are all just pieces of the puzzle,” Aubuchon said.

Aubuchon was the prosecutor on indictments against Maricopa County supervisors Stapley and Mary Rose Wilcox. She also was the prosecutor in a criminal complaint against Judge Gary Donahoe and she drafted and filed the RICO case before handing it off to Alexander.

Aubuchon was among several division chiefs in the County Attorney’s Office.

Thomas said he selected Aubuchon to work on the Stapley investigation because he was dissatisfied with other prosecutors who worked on other investigations conducted by the Maricopa Anti-Corruption Enforcement unit (MACE), a special group formed by Thomas and Arpaio to weed out public corruption.

Thomas said the case against Stapley originated from a tip by county lobbyist Jack LaSota.

LaSota testified that the tip was nothing more than a rumor he heard while attending luncheons with other county lobbyists. He said the rumor was that Stapley pressured Judge Barbara Rodriguez Mundell, the top judge in the county at the time, into hiring private attorney Tom Irvine to work as a planner for the court tower.

Thomas said Arpaio’s former second-in-command, David Hendershott, had a conversation with Mundell where she confirmed the rumor. Mundell testified, however, that never happened.

Another attorney, Mark Goldman, who worked for the county for free, had already done some Internet research on Stapley’s financial disclosures and property he owned and turned it over to Aubuchon.

She got a 118-count indictment on Stapley in November 2008, alleging he failed to file certain disclosures required of elected officials.

Thomas said he believes Stapley omitted the disclosures as a way to hide money.

“I believed Don Stapley was corrupt,” he said.

Goldstock said RICO cases involve one of the more complex areas of law. Aubuchon had never filed a RICO case before and her only civil experience was from almost 20 years before when she worked for the Attorney General’s Office. Goldstock added that if the RICO suit filed by Aubuchon would have been submitted for a grade in his class, it would have failed.

“Lisa was very bright, she was a go-getter, she had extensive criminal experience,” Thomas said, adding that he was mindful that the civil allegations would be based on crimes.

Testimony throughout the proceedings and evidence submitted show that Thomas got an abundance of advice against pursuing the RICO case and charges against Stapley.

One of his advisers was Phil MacDonnell, his former chief deputy, who testified that he counseled against charging Stapley because powerful politicians under indictment tend to fight harder than typical defendants and they typically attack the prosecutor through the media.

Powerful politicians can also exact political retribution, MacDonnell testified.

MacDonnell also doubted Aubuchon’s competency and judgment to handle such an important case.

Thomas said he disregarded the advice because MacDonnell had a direct financial conflict of interest in advising on how to interact with the Board of Supervisors because the board set his salary.

“He appeared visibly fearful,” Thomas said.

MacDonnell’s advice was tainted by his aspiration to take over Thomas’ position when he resigned to run for attorney general and he had a personal dislike for Aubuchon, Thomas said.

“The reality was his political advice was dead on,” Thomas said.