Sandy Bahr is a well-known figure at the state Capitol, where she can frequently be found testifying at the Legislature and the Arizona Corporation Commission in her role as executive director of the Sierra Club’s Grand Canyon Chapter. Bahr says her work as an environmental lobbyist has only gotten more difficult under President Donald Trump’s second term, as his influence trickles down to Republican lawmakers in the state.

Answers have been lightly edited for clarity. 

What has this year been like for your work with all of the changes from the Trump administration?

When I read the headlines and I start looking at the news the thought that comes into my head is, “What fresh hell is this?” From day one of this administration, we knew they were going to go after the things that we really care about, the things I really personally care about. I do think it matters when you have the president of the United States saying things and making it OK and saying like climate change is a hoax, that windmills cause cancer. It’s a really challenging time for me. Personally, I have to think that continuing to do this work and really to advocate for what we think is right and for people who don’t have a voice in the process right now is critical, and that it will make a difference, and we will come out on the other side. I work with a lot of young people, and the level of anxiety and sadness and concern and outright fear (they have) … like I know Sierra Club activists who stopped participating because of concerns about what might happen. So we’re submitting our comments, we’re putting out our alerts, we’re organizing events, we’re participating in coalitions. And that’s all you can do. Sometimes you just have to focus on the day.

What was this legislative session like with a Republican-controlled Legislature that backs Trump?

I feel like the sessions have gotten increasingly hostile. The leadership sets the tone, so the speaker of the House and the Senate president, they set the tone. They can establish expectations of the committee chairs and they can bring them in and give them a good talking to if they’re not treating people respectfully. Like I don’t expect them to agree with what I have to say, but I also don’t think they should be disrespectful, and they especially shouldn’t be disrespectful to people who have taken time out of their day, maybe they took a day off work, a day off school or whatever. They should be respectful and that’s gotten increasingly worse there. It seems like anything goes with some of these committee chairs. I was in a committee this year where someone who I consider a colleague was speaking and she was crying. If you’re making people cry, then you’re seriously not doing the right thing, this was just pure meanness. And I think that is the big difference. Donald Trump is a mean person and that has trickled down. A lot of people think that it’s OK to just be mean, because you can, because you’re in a position of power. I do think this was one of the worst sessions because of that. It’s gotten harder to get people to come to the Capitol. We can get people to go for our Environmental Day at the Capitol because there are a lot of people and they’re going in groups, but getting people to show up or testify when they watch what happens (is hard).

There’s also an all-Republican membership at the ACC this year, what has that been like?

We have had all-Republican Corporation Commissions before. And for most of the time I’ve been working on these issues, the Legislature has been all Republican too. But it’s just a different type of Republican. At the (commission), they seem to not understand what their role is, as far as they are regulators. I know regulation is a dirty word for them, but they’re regulators. They are supposed to be, because these utilities are monopolies. I love it when they talk about the free market at the Corporation Commission. I’m like, you understand that a monopoly is not subject to market forces. Like if I don’t want to pay money to APS, if I don’t like what they’re doing, I have to move to get a different utility. And they’re taking their marching orders, I guess, from Trump. 

There’s been some hostility at the Corporation Commission as well, how has that impacted your work?

At one time, it used to be kind of a relief to go from the Legislature to the (Corporation Commission), because they have rules of procedure and it really wasn’t personal. It has gotten a lot more personal. And just like the Legislature, certain committee chairs make it very personal, either saying things about you, when you’re up there testifying, or about your organization, sometimes giving you no opportunity to respond. They think any sniping, mean comment or question that pops into their head is appropriate for them to spew out. That’s not leadership, that is not serving the public. They forget who they’re elected to serve. They’re not only elected to serve their core of MAGA supporters, they are elected to serve the public, the ratepayers, and that means me too, because I’m an APS ratepayer. I feel like it’s a total abuse of power, the fact that they’re not capable of showing any kind of restraint. I mean, believe me, when I’m testifying on things, there are things that pop into my head too, but I don’t say them because it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to say them in that context. I do try to be respectful of the office, even if the person has earned zero respect. I also feel like I don’t want to be that kind of a person. I want to be able to say I operated with integrity and that what I’m guilty of is advocating strongly for what I believe in. 

What has given you hope this year and what do you think Democrats and other activists could do better?

I am glad that the governor has not shied away from vetoing all those terrible bills. And despite the fact that the Legislature has tried to make a big deal about it, she has continued to use her veto authority and that has been really important. I just can’t even imagine what it would be like if she hadn’t, even just in the energy realm, all the bills that hit her desk. She did sign a couple (bills) that we thought were terrible bills, that the utilities wanted, and we still think they’re terrible bills. Even though she didn’t veto that securitization bill, just the community that came together around that and called it out, I think that was encouraging. Getting a diversity of voices in the process can make a difference. At the (Corporation Commission) we just really have not had much success this year at all, and they seem to be just opposed to everything that we support, and likewise, support everything we oppose. So it makes it pretty challenging. I do think it’s important that we continue to make people aware of (the Corporation Commission). Not enough people understand what the Corporation Commission is, what they do and why it matters in their everyday lives. That’s something I know we’re doing a lot of work on, and I feel like there’s some momentum building there.