If you’re looking for compromise, you are unlikely to find it in Sen. Ron Gould, a Lake Havasu City Republican. His campaign Web site defines his candidacy in terms of what he opposes. And several times on the floor he has even threatened his colleagues with backlash if they support measures that he believes increase taxes. “My bills are always divisive,” he admits at the beginning of this interview. It did not come as a surprise that although he is chair of the Transportation Committee, and transportation remains a priority of the state, he was not included in the budget negotiations. To say he speaks his mind is an understatement. The District 3 lawmaker once said half of the stuff that comes out of the Senate is trash. In this interview he called his fellow lawmakers “looters” because he believes government has over-taxed the middle class. He may also seem inconsistent. He once remarked that “rules are rules,” but a few days later asked for the suspension of the same rules. He probably has the highest number of “no” votes in the Legislature.
Can you tell me about your decision to leave California≠
California became too crowded and crime ridden and taxes were getting too high.
Here in the Senate, and probably in the entire Legislature, you’re known as the most conservative lawmaker. What does conservatism mean to you≠
Well, it’s kind of interesting (in) that I believe it was Abraham Lincoln who said government should only do for the people what they can’t do for themselves and that pretty much sums it up.
Meaning, do defense and foreign affairs≠
Sure. And there’s local. You need to enforce the law. You need to have places for criminals and things like that and there are certain things that you have to tax people for. But if you take a look at the budget that we put out the last several years, there’s a lot of money in there for things that people could do for themselves. And you know if you continue to do things for people, after a few generations, they determine that these are entitlements. And so you put the whole burden of running the country on the backs of the middle class. The poor don’t pay taxes. The poor take a lot of services. The rich are smart enough to figure out to hire good tax attorneys so that they don’t pay either.
What made you decide to be one, your conversion to conservatism≠
Usually, you convert the first time that you get a paycheck and you know you look at your paycheck and try to figure out why the government is entitled to 25 percent of your paycheck. That’s generally what turns you into — from the entitlement mentality to the taxpayer mentality is you find out that, “gee, somebody actually has to pay for this stuff. And it’s me.”
Housing prisoners, that takes a lot of money. You’ll need to pay taxes for that.
No way have I ever said that people should not pay any taxes, but that with limited government, you would have limited taxes. You know there are a lot of things you can do. One that comes to mind is why aren’t prisoners building new prisons≠ You know they are able bodied and construction is not rocket science. Why are we borrowing money to build prisons≠ You know we could build prisons for materials only. I’m sure you’ll have some building contractors upset but I think when we lower their tax rate then, they’ll be less upset.
I remember you clearly stating you will never vote for new legislative buildings. Now assuming your office gets flooded and you can’t work properly and the majority caucus room gets flooded and you can’t do your job, will you agree to building new buildings≠
I don’t think you need to abandon the buildings if you have plumbing problems. If you have plumbing problems you repair the plumbing. And Arizona actually has more building space than many of the other Western states do.
What would it take to convince you of the need for new buildings≠
If the buildings burned down.
Both the Senate and the House have a $10.6 something billion budget, I’m sure you have looked at it.
Yeah, I have a bootleg copy of the budget that I copied from Sen. Jack Harper’s since I have not been provided with a copy of the budget by leadership.
I thought you were briefed≠
No, we got a blue sheet that is an overview. But to actually have the budget bills I know I’m expected to vote on I had to copy Sen. Harper’s bills.
Did you find anything you like in the budget≠
Oh, there’s a lot of things that we need to do. But there’s probably 20 percent of that budget that doesn’t need to be done.
Such as≠
21st century fund. You know I just think it is ridiculous that we have decided we are going to spend $100 million hiring some 21st century St. Patrick that’s going to show us how Ireland turned their economy around when one, Arizona’s economy beats Ireland’s and Arizona is only a state and not a country and two, we know how they did it, they cut corporate income tax. So to me it is just ridiculous to continue to waste money on a dubious plan when we know what we need to do. All it is, is a handout.
The House has offered a $60 million tax cut.
They’re calling it a tax cut. A lot of those aren’t tax cuts. The tuition tax credit is not a tax cut because the taxpayer doesn’t save any money. The taxpayer makes a donation to a private school and then gets to get the tax credit on his income tax. There’s no gain to him.
As the Senate budget is now, will you support it≠
It needs some work…
They say that compromise defines a politician, and that a successful politician is one that makes a lot of compromises. You seem to come to the Senate with one purpose — to oppose. I saw your Web site. I think every page has the phrase you “oppose” or “are against,” for example, higher taxes, more spending, homosexual marriage, attempts to limit the 2nd Amendment. Is that how you define your stay here in the Senate, a one-man opposition≠
An opposition party of one≠ (Laughs) Well you know if I thought everything was going smoothly, why would I waste my time coming down here≠ And apparently my constituents don’t agree with it either. Otherwise — they know exactly what I think. If they didn’t agree with me they wouldn’t re-elect me. The only reason that people come down into the Legislature — two reasons: One they want to join in the looting of the taxpayer or they want to divert that money — they don’t think it’s being looted properly. They want it looted to the beneficiary of their choice, rather than the beneficiary of somebody else’s choice. Or you want to stop the looting. I want to stop the looting.
So people here are looters, most of them are≠
Sure, most of them are willing to vote to spend money that isn’t their money on things that the government shouldn’t spend money on.
You did say rules are rules, but I think a few days later you asked for a suspension of the rules yourself. Some people would say you are being inconsistent≠
That might have been inconsistent in that thing, in that particular incident. What happened was that I accidentally killed Mr. (Russell) Pearce’s bill and I needed to resurrect it to correct my mistake.
On various occasions you have threatened your colleagues with backlash if they voted on measures that you think would be increasing taxes. Is compromise not in your vocabulary≠
I don’t really feel the need to compromise. You know, there are enough people willing to compromise here. And I don’t think my constituents sent me down here to compromise.
Will you ever compromise≠
If it’s in the best interest of my constituents. If I’m still moving the ball down field.
We can almost always expect you to vote against a bill on third reading.
Sure. Well, I probably have more “yeses” than “nos.” But I probably have the highest rate of no votes.
A lot of times you find yourself alone. Are you effective≠
At least it points out to the public that not everyone agreed with it. You know I have to go to home at the end of the day and live with myself. If I have to vote for things that I can’t tolerate and that I told people I wouldn’t vote for, you know, I’d have a hard time sleeping at night.
On the proposed budget, Senate President Tim Bee, from the beginning, has brought the Democrats to the table. Now, you have a commitment from the governor that should the Legislature pass the negotiated budget, she would sign it. What do you think of Bee’s move≠
Actually, this is third budget cycle that I went through. The only one I that liked was the first year. The Appropriations Committee put out a conservative Republican budget. We reconciled with the House. And then we sent it to the governor and the governor vetoed it. And then we made her drag us uphill and that came out with a lower budget than this year and last year.
You know, I’m not down here to make friends. I have friends at home. I’m down here to get the cheapest budget out the door that we can get and we don’t do that by compromising. We spend over 100 days working on a budget that I only got to see last week.
I assume you are not happy with that≠
No, I don’t like not being included in the process.
They’d probably say we can’t squeeze a compromise out of Ron Gould. So let’s keep him out.
No, see the only reason they want me to vote for the budget now is so that they don’t look like spenders. They don’t need my vote. They have Democrat votes. See all my vote does is affirm to them that they did a good job.

If you could choose which era or decade or time to live, which would you choose≠
The colonial times, during the Revolution I think would be a pretty interesting time.
What would you imagine yourself to be doing at the time≠
Oh, I’d fight.
What is the funniest thing you have seen here in the Senate≠
(After a long pause and a laugh) Nothing that I’d really want to comment on.
Do you imagine yourself as a frontiersman during the Colonial era≠
I’m kind of a rugged
individualist, you know, which used to be the desired outcome for men, but that doesn’t seem to be what they expect of us anymore.