When it comes to political affairs, Norris Nordvold has been around the block more than once.
But that might be an understatement for a guy with more than 40 years of experience in city, state and international politics.
Nordvold is most known in Arizona for his years as the intergovernmental programs director for the Phoenix City Manager’s Office, where he represented the city at the state Capitol and in Washington. But Nordvold’s political experience extends far beyond his work as a lobbyist. He’s a veteran of Vietnam and has served as an elections monitor in countries such as Bosnia and Kosovo, often drawing on his vacation time to do so.
He is now retired, but that hasn’t stopped him from taking a position as the director of the Friends of the West Valley Corridor, an organization formed to coordinate a recreational project 10 years in the making.
You worked for the city of Phoenix as the intergovernmental director for 18 years. During that time period, how did Phoenix change≠
It has always been a large city, but we crossed a million in 1990. I don’t think the city has really changed that much. The city has always been the 800-pound gorilla compared to the Legislature. What often happens is that the mayor gets more press then the legislators because he is in the paper every day. It doesn’t matter who is mayor of Phoenix, there is just always a lot of coverage. It is a very political environment, so you have to be very careful to not upset any egos. But Phoenix has always been the dominating force, much more so than now, actually. The suburbs have grown dramatically compared to Phoenix. A good example was, on revenue sharing, Phoenix was getting almost 46 percent of the revenue sharing. Now we are down to almost 38 percent. There is a West Valley influence and an East Valley influence that wasn’t around back then.
Did your job change during those years≠
When I started out, there were only two people. When I left, we were up to five people because we had added some functions. We also would do the Washington (D.C.) lobbying out of our office. The other big area is the Maricopa Association of Governments, which is the umbrella organization that does all the regional planning and the spending of all the transportation dollars. Cities fight for that, so we were also lobbying against other cities.
During your time as a city lobbyist, what was the most memorable issue you lobbied for≠
One of the most memorable times goes back to the 1991 AZScam. It was a sting operation that the mayor, the council and the city manager did not know about. It was started by the police chief and a county attorney who had heard that there were some legislators who were taking money. They set up a sting operation to see if legislators would come in. They set up a guy who handed out money if the people would support gaming, which was a whole crazy idea, but it was all on tape. I think there were seven legislators who were caught in this operation. Some lobbyists were also involved.
It was difficult, though, because when it first came out, they didn’t have all the background or the videos. The legislators were screaming at me about entrapment, but I knew nothing about it. I was with the city manager when The Republic broke the story, and he was furious. The police chief didn’t tell anyone. I had legislators screaming and actually hitting me in the chest. It was a difficult time, but then they would show the tapes at 11 p.m. and people could watch and see people taking $10,000. Some legislators even counted the bribes out. Before that came out, though, it looked like total entrapment.
What was the mayor’s reaction≠
Everyone was furious, but we just had to let it play out. The Republic carried stories every day, and it shook up the Legislature pretty bad.
Was there ever an issue that you lobbied for that you now regret≠
Not really. Most of the main issues are public-policy issues, and the mayor and the council give you direction.
One issue in 1995 was the Sudden Infant Death Syndrome legislation. It was a state mandate that our police and fire departments would have to provide 40 hours of training for every person going through the academy to recognize SIDS and to react properly. It is probably a good thing, but the cities under the League of Arizona Cities and Towns have a problem with state mandates. Walking in the room to testify against the bill, and there are almost 30 mothers with pictures of their dead children, we realized this was not one we wanted to testify against. We all ended up making the League lobbyist testify. But once you allow state mandates, you have to decide which ones are OK and which ones aren’t. It is easier to just say “no state mandates.”
Did the bill pass≠
I am sure it did, but it was one of those that I just ran out of the room after the testimony. It was very sad.
Prior to working with the city you worked in many different places. What brought you there≠
I was in the Peace Corps after college and I had language skills, so I knew I was going to get drafted to Vietnam. I went to Washington for two years to study Vietnamese. They started with 60 people, but they kept having tests, and if you flunked the test you went to Vietnam. I would study during the weekends, and people would ask me if I wanted to go out, and I would always say “no.” When they asked me why, I would say “because I don’t want to go to Vietnam.”
There were 12 of us who graduated after two years, and I did end up going to Vietnam. Actually, there were two people in my class who died in the Tet Offensive. After Tet, they needed a lot more people, so they gave us a big test and said they were going to send 30 people over. It was an incentive to study. I still speak fluent Vietnamese.
After the war, I know you got a job as the Senate research director before going to work for the city, but in the middle you went overseas a couple of times to work with refugees and to monitor elections. Why did you do that and what was your role there≠
Well, I started by going to Somalia. We decided to go somewhere different, and my wife and I were co-directors for this refugee resettlement program for three church groups: Lutherans, Catholics and the Church of World Service. I spent the first two years with that group and then I was hired to work on development projects.
Was there a civil war at the time≠
It was a war between Somalia and Ethiopia, and all the refugees were driven out of Ethiopia. There were like 6,000 refugees on the borders of Somalia. The project was basically medical, feeding, training, agriculture training, foresting and deserting techniques. We tried to help them be self-sufficient. The food trucks would come around and I have seen the riots of people trying to get bags of food. A lot of people started their own gardens and developed some know-how. Through all of this I worked for a nonprofit organization and so developed some really great connections.
You also spent time as an elections monitor right≠
I was hired by Marvin Andrews, but then Frank Fairbanks has been City Manager since 1991. He allowed me to take vacation time to do election monitoring. I found out about it from one of the council members. The member had gone to South Africa in 1994, to the Nelson Mandela election. I thought it was really
great. I went to the Web site, applied, got picked and went to Bosnia in 1997. There are some elections right now I would apply to, but I am too busy.
Can you explain the role of an elections monitor≠
For countries that are just starting the democratic process, you go over and you help train them as far as voter identification, how you run an election and similar things. I had worked elections here, but you don’t have to have that skill. You just go through and make sure they are following all the procedures.
Are the procedures set by their government≠
They are set by the European Union branch called the OSCE, which has an election-monitoring section. You’ll notice they don’t send you to countries like France; they send you to developing countries. The good part about it is that there are contingents from America, the UK, France, the Netherlands, Germany, Turkey, Spain and all these people. They mix you all up, and you are spread out across the whole country. You are given a specific area, and you first go out and talk to all the election people to make sure that there have been no restrictions. Then on the day of voting, you pick a place at 6 a.m. and you watch how they open the polls, you make sure the ballot boxes are sealed and you take pictures.
Your ID is a European Union badge so you can go anywhere. When the polling results come in, you can go into the computer rooms. That is where a lot of the shenanigans take place because they change the numbers. Each of the observer teams sends in a report, and they are all supposed to match. In some of the countries, they kept delaying the reports. This was in Ukraine, during the Orange Revolution. I worked in the eastern part, and I asked, ‘Why aren’t you sending in the reports≠” And they would tell me they were waiting to see how many votes they needed. You can’t stop what you see, but you can write up reports. They would have buses full of people who would just go from one polling place to another and vote as they went. It’s all fraud.
The European Ambassador had a press conference in Kiev and just blasted that election, and all the students took to the streets. That is when the Supreme Court threw out the election. I missed Christmas that year, but I wanted to be there to finish the election.
Was the corruption obvious to everyone, or was it done in secret≠
It was obvious to everyone. They didn’t try to hide it. I was in one small village and the Communist Party representative came rushing in and said “They are photo copying the ballots.” The only place in town that had a copy machine was the drug store, so we all rush over to the drug store and here they have all the ballots for tomorrow’s election and they were making photocopies. I started to take my camera out and a big huge guy in a leather coat came over — he was my counterpart from Germany — and said “Norris, put away your camera. We want to live.” We just wrote that up.
That night, we had a two-hour investigation, and they argued that the reason they had photocopied the ballots was because the ballots weren’t clear so they needed to make them clearer. That was the official finding, and we took a copy of the finding and attached it to our report and sent it off. You know what they were doing≠ They were sending out more ballots than they were supposed to have.
You also did monitoring in Russia. When was that≠
Russia was probably in 2003. It was a parliamentary election in December. That is when I realized just how popular Putin is. I was supposed to go this year to the May 2 election in Russia, but then Putin told the American Ambassador “We don’t want any stinking observers in Russia.”
How did you make the transition from this and lobbying to your latest project, the West Valley Recreation Corridor≠
Basically, the stuff I was working on in the city is very similar to what I will be doing with the Friends of the West Valley Corridor. Election monitoring and lobbying just fits in so well. I am doing the same thing, trying to get people excited about a project.
What is the role of the Friends of the West Valley Recreation Corridor≠
The Friends group was set up to help bring all the different parts of the West Valley Recreational Corridor together. They have a master plan of how this thing could be put together.
What is the West Valley Recreation Corridor≠
Think about Scottsdale Indian Bend Wash. You can start at the top and ride down past Tempe Town Lake at the bypass, go through Phoenix Rio Salado and come out at the confluence of the three rivers, the Salt, Gila and the Agua Fria. Then ride all the way up the Agua Fria, up to the White Hill Dam or Lake Pleasant. You could have a full circle of recreation areas and trails that people could use without having to cross roads. The part we are focusing on is from Indian School to Peoria, which is phase one.
What is phase two≠
Just to keep moving farther north and connecting all the pieces. Actually, I just met with some folks with the Vulcan Mine, and they said they are interested in doing some sort of a lake or something in that mine. This is kind of a snowball effect. Once things are growing, people will see that they can benefit from it.
How is the corridor created≠
You are taking the wide sand river bed, and the flood-control district has the plan to narrow the flood plains to 1,200 feet. Right now, the flood plain could be 5,000-feet wide with all the flat sand. Someone has to pay for that, and we are working with the Arizona Sand and Rock Company people. So, the Sand and Rock people that are there now, digging in the Agua Fria, mining the sand and gravel, can put the waste up on the edges. What you are doing is narrowing the river. There are 5,000 some acres opened up this way for development in the flood plain.
Are there any concerns of displacing wildlife≠
When you get farther out, there are habitat corridors on the northern part. I have talked to the nature conservancy, and they will have to decide what we are doing so we leave areas for the deer to cross. Mostly, the river is dry, though, so there is not much wildlife. When you are down in Avondale, they are doing more river restoration and habitat restoration to bring in the beaver and the egret and all those folks.
Are there any negative environmental effects in changing the width of the flood plain≠
There are already problems because some of the areas have landfills and old land pits that would have to be taken care of. It isn’t as bad as when I started on the Rio Salado project, because that had a whole bunch of dumps and places where we had to take care of the environmental hazards.
We will have to go in there, take those out and clean them up and get what is called a 404 permit to reclaim this land on the edge of the plain. That is why our partners are the Arizona Sand and Rock Company, because they are the ones that will bear the main cost. It is to their advantage. They bought up the entire area, the entire flood plain, so if they can narrow their flood plain, the banks will become economically viable for them. The Sand and Rock people aren’t really all that altruistic. They are in it for themselves and are going to lease some of the land for condos and office space.
Can the buildings and the recreation areas co-exist effectively≠
I was just out at Rio Vista, which is on 82nd Avenue and Thunderbird, in Peoria, and what they did there was to narrow the channel and then the city put in a recreation center, four soccer fields, a batting cage and a skateboard park. Then they have some office space to the side. That is a mixed-use example.
Do you have any percentage of land that you hope to keep for recreation&
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One of the things that would be cool is if they could bring in job centers in that area so you could have your recreation and job centers in the same area. If they were able to bring in jobs, people could go out and hike during their lunch hour or something like that. All that is sort of up to the cities and the property owners, though.
You mentioned possible new jobs. What positive economic impacts will this have≠
I think the value of having this huge recreational amenity up and down the Fria is important to people. My nephew has four kids, and they are all in soccer. He said that if it wasn’t for this, they would be driving for miles to get to a soccer field. This could grow to an attraction for all kinds of stuff. There is already a Starbucks that has moved in there.
Is the flood plain currently private land≠
The entire river bed in the section we are working on now has been bought up by sand and gravel companies. There are some big companies: Tanner, Cinimex and the Arizona Sand and Rock Company.
Since it is private land, will there be any public funds used for construction≠
This is confusing. There was legislation passed in 2004 that sets up a recreational corridor district. It creates a special district. You have to have at least 25 percent of the landowners support to create the district. We have 32 percent of the landowners support. They have to petition the county to form the district and then the county calls the election, and if it gets 50 percent of the vote then the district is formed. The district has taxing authority.
So there will be a level of public funding≠
There will be. We are now working with the cities, because in order to form the district you have to have permission from the cities. My job is two-fold: working with a group of engineers who are trying to form the district, and then working with the county flood control and the cities. I am working with Surprise and El Mirage to try to get them to sign on. The special district has taxing authority, but if the city wants to expand beyond the banks then that would be something they would have to work out. So there are private companies plus some other folks involved.
Is the primary responsibility with the private companies≠
Well, we are trying to get them to agree to go ahead and channelize and make the low-flow channel because that is the most expensive. Phoenix did it differently. They went to the (U.S. Army) Corps of Engineers, and they got $80 million from the federal government for their channelization. We are trying to get the sand and gravel companies to front the cost, which they are willing to do because it is an economic benefit for them.
What stage in the process are you now at≠
We are at the stage of working to form the memorandum of intent to form the district, which will be given to the county. My goal is, by the end of the year 2008, to get all the ducks lined up so we can go over to the county executor and say “look, everyone signed up.” By that time, we hope to have 51 percent of the landowners. We are at 32 percent right now. You only need 25 percent to form the district, but it goes to an election, so you have to have at least 50 percent of the vote there.
Which cities are supporting this project≠
Avondale has signed on, and Peoria has signed on.
When were plans for this corridor created≠
The vision goes back to 1997. With all the dense population, there really aren’t enough parks. There was a vision to take the Agua Fria and turn it into an oasis like the Scottsdale Indian Bend.
That makes this project 10 years in the making≠ Why such a long time≠
Well, Rio Salado started in 1967, and they dedicated that in 2005.
Are there any final projection dates≠
There are a lot of pieces that have to be put together. This is probably a 20- or 30-year project. There are a lot of pieces to it, and the more you can connect the pieces together, the faster it will go. That is why the Friends groups was created.
Does this project have support from the Legislature≠
Most of the west-side legislators are very excited about this.