After weathering storm after storm as a state elections director, chief legal adviser to both the secretary of state and the governor, Sambo “Bo” Dul, exited state government. Her work leaves her battle ready as she steps in to co-lead the election and public law practice at Coppersmith Brockelman.
How did you find your way to the law? What drew you to election law, to political law?
When I was a kid, I really wanted to be a pediatrician, and then I came of age and got to learn more about my family’s experience. I was born in Cambodia in the immediate aftermath of the genocide, and then we fled the country right after that. I was a year old, and we went into a refugee camp, lived there for four years, and my dad was killed right before we got into the refugee camps. As I grew older, I became more curious and asked many questions, learning more about politics, the law, and their impact on our lives, both in Cambodia and after we moved to the US.
The Khmer Rouge is just your quintessential example of what can happen when the rule of law, democratic institutions and any semblance of due process and equality under the law just completely falls away. It’s terror, and it’s genocide.
My family lived firsthand a very grim alternative to democracy. And then, when we arrived in the US, we had to navigate rebuilding our lives in a country we weren’t familiar with. To have gone through all of that trauma and loss and to leave everything behind and come to a new country where you don’t know anything, you don’t understand anything, you don’t know the language, and you’re trying to rebuild your life, but you’re also trying to navigate this very bureaucratic immigration system.
I had to become my family’s immigration lawyer. As a kid in middle school, I was filling out immigration forms for us and attending the meetings and translating, because I spoke the most English in my family. I became the family translator and immigration lawyer, navigating that process for my family from a very young age. A very prominent part of my adolescent years was the anguish and frustration of dealing with immigration bureaucracy. So all of that compelled me to study political science and economics in college and go to law school and public policy school afterward.
What have been your most significant takeaways from your time in public practice?
We as a state have a lot of big, seemingly intractable problems, but none of these problems are not solvable if everyone is willing to come to the table and to talk to those you disagree with, and to put aside pre judgments, and to be genuinely willing to listen and to try to understand the perspective of those that you disagree with, and to be willing to give and take to think creatively about a way we could come at this problem that is acceptable to everyone, despite different kinds of priorities and stakeholders that we’re prioritizing.
The point of pride for me is that I consistently took this approach and perspective, both in the Secretary of State’s Office and the Governor’s Office. In both instances, we operated in a divided government environment, despite the odds being completely stacked against us.
The 2020 election was just unreal. The challenges that confronted the state and election officials during that cycle included the pandemic, false claims of election fraud, election denialism, threats and harassment against election officials, the influx of audits, the Cyber Ninja’s audit, and issues with public confidence and processes. Those were all incredibly challenging to navigate. They would have been challenging to navigate under the best of circumstances, but with a divided government, limited resources, and the pandemic, it was particularly difficult. But we, as an office, and to the governor and secretary’s credit, were able to put aside these differences and work together with the county officials, who were from different political persuasions and served different constituents across various segments of the Arizona community.
In your work for the governor, what have been your biggest accomplishments and challenges?
I’ll start with challenges. There were a lot of challenges. Governing is hard. I really believe that government can and should be a force for good in people’s lives. Our work has to work for the people we represent, the people we serve. And making all the trains move together, in the right direction, and on the right schedule is hard, especially in a divided government. But I’ll say it’s getting harder and harder in the dysfunctional information environment that we’re in and in the “always on” news cycles and social media environment — I think these create incentives for political theater over the less glamorous but critical work of coming together and actually solving the problem at hand. I’d point to that as a significant, overarching challenge I’ve seen.
In terms of accomplishments, I’m proud of so much … As a general matter, I’m immensely proud of the teams that I built both as the state elections director in the Secretary of State’s Office and as general counsel in the Governor’s Office. Those offices were able to accomplish what we accomplished because of the significant contributions and collaboration of great people on our team. We all worked so hard and supported each other through all the challenges. We learned together and tackled problems together. I’m so thankful to have gotten to work with such dedicated public servants.
What prompted your decision to transition out of the Governor’s Office?
It was a very hard decision. It was very hard to decide to leave work that I care immensely about, at a time when it seemed more important than ever in the midst of the upheaval from the Trump Administration. It was hard to leave the team — people I care a lot about, that I’d been through so much with, and I love Governor Hobbs as a leader and as a human being. It’s been such a privilege to have her trust and to work alongside her all these years.
But a confluence of factors led to the decision. I’d spent almost seven years in the state government. Even during the 8 months I was at the nonprofit organization in 2022, my work was still representing the Arizona Secretary of State’s Office and other states’ chief election officials in administering and defending free and fair elections. It was still a lot of short-fuse, rapid response, emergency litigation. So I see it as a continuous stretch. And those seven years were preceded by nearly a decade in private practice, at big national law firms that were very demanding of my time and energy. I have two young daughters and an aging mom (and I am aging myself), and I needed a break and a recharge. I had some family and personal health issues come up around that time also — everyone’s fine — but that was ultimately the final push to pull the trigger and step back, and take some time to take care of my family and myself.
That’s the push factor, but there were also pull factors. I am very excited about returning to private practice. I’m really a law nerd at heart. I love the practice of law, reading cases, researching the law, developing arguments and writing briefs. Because of the nature of the work, pace and demands of my roles as general counsel in the Governor’s Office and in the Secretary of State’s Office, I didn’t often have the time to do those deep dives myself. I was managing all the cases and giving strategic direction — when you’re so busy putting out a hundred fires at once and keeping the trains moving through the fire zones, you just can’t be lead litigation counsel on cases, you can’t be the one actually standing up in court. You have to hire outside counsel, a lawyer in private practice, for a lot of that. So a part of me was itching to get back to that, and to bring to that work everything I’ve learned, the incredible perspective I’ve gained in these public service positions.
Why Coppersmith Brockelman?
I’m really looking forward to returning to private practice, and to doing that at Coppersmith particularly, just because I’ve worked closely with the attorneys here from my positions at the Secretary of State’s Office and Governor’s Office for so many years, so I know first hand the high caliber of their legal work as well as their character. Hard work is always easier and the outcome better when you’re doing it with people you like and work well with and I know that will be the case here.
How would you define your ethos in approaching the law? What guides you in the work you do? What is your north star as you take this next step?
I believe I wouldn’t have done the work that I did if I didn’t believe in it. But I believe that government can be a force for good in people’s lives. And I believe that, despite our historical and present day shortcomings, this country can live up to its constitutional promises — of equal protection and due process under the law, of freedom of conscience and freedom of association, of government that serves all people, not just those with wealth and power. And I believe that America can be pushed and nudged to live up to its ideals through the just and moral application of the law. That’s what guides me in the work that I do.
Despite that optimism and idealism, though, I’m also a pragmatist and incrementalist at heart. I will take slow, incremental progress over letting “perfect” be the enemy of the good, any day. And I think enduring progress requires us to meet people and communities and institutions where they are — especially those who disagree with you, who come from a different perspective than you. We have to come to the table with a willingness to truly listen and understand. And to be done well, that work is often slow and incremental. As the famous MLK Jr. quote goes, the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. I think we all have a part to play in that bending.