Key Points

• The House approved SB1269 on a 31-29 vote

• The measure would allow chaplains in public schools

• Lawmakers believe it addresses counselor shortages, secularism

Saying that children need more God, the state House has approved allowing chaplains in public school classrooms.

Senate Bill 1269 would allow — but not require — school boards to invite chaplains from various religions into schools to provide “support, services or programs” to students.

Parents would be involved, and a list of available chaplains would be provided. Proponents say the plan is crafted to prohibit participants from proselytizing.

That did not satisfy foes who said if parents want religious counseling for their children they are free to get that elsewhere, either by taking them to a house of worship or, if they want it to be part of their academics, enrolling them in private or parochial school. And they pointed out that the state even provides vouchers of taxpayer funds for such an option.

There’s also the contention that chaplains would not be needed if the state properly funded counselors and therapists.

But proponents contend that there is still a need for students to get a different point of view.

Rep. David Livingston, R-Peoria, said students are dealing with everything from drugs to cutting themselves. 

“This bill is not the solution to everything in life,” said Livingston. But he said it could be one of the answers.

“What parents are wanting is more ethics, more discipline, and, I believe, more God in their schools,” he continued.

“When we talk about issues of suicide and cutting themselves, maybe a counselor is not what’s required,” Rep. Teresa Martinez, R-Casa Grande, said.

“Maybe faith and God is what is required,” she said. “I think we have to do a better job of including God in everything we do.”

Rep. Justin Olson, R-Mesa, believes that the United States is creating a state religion in violation of the Constitution. That religion, he said, is secularism.

“We need to recognize that we should be turning to God, we should be looking to faith, and our children need opportunities to see faith and to look to a higher power,” Olson said. “And that’s what is available under this bill.”

The final House vote was 31-29. One Republican did, however, reject the proposal.

Rep. Nick Kupper, R-Surprise, told colleagues that he agrees with many of their arguments that there is no constitutional requirement to separate faith and state. But he said what’s in SB1269 goes too far.

“I think schools these days have become something quite different from when I was going to school,” said Kupper.

“I think we’ve made our public schools into mother, father, counselor, priest, rabbi,” he said, beyond the basic point of public education. “This bill expands what a school should be.”

A final Senate vote is needed before the measure goes to the governor.

On one hand, the legislation opens the door to counselors of all faiths — sort of.

To get on the list, a chaplain would have to be from a “local religious group.” But that is limited to those who meet at least monthly — and only if those meetings are at a site in which the district is located.

SB1269 then further defines eligible religions as those that have a hierarchy of teachers, clergy, sages or priests, has a regular practice of ritual or protocol — and “acknowledges the existence of and worships one or more supernatural entities that possess power over the natural world.”

All that raised questions from Rep. Stephanie Simacek, R-Phoenix.

Last month, during a committee hearing, Simacek raised the issue of how those rules would keep out counselors who are atheists, even if that is the preference of the parents.

That didn’t slow progress on the bill. So this week, with a roll-call vote on the floor, she argued that the measure violates parental rights in other ways.

“I’m the parent of two in public education,” Simacek argued. This bill, she argued, would allow a chaplain “to preach to my child what is right and what is wrong.”

Rep. Nancy Gutierrez, D-Tucson, had her own take.

She said some kids need to talk with trained adults about issues, such as counselors or social workers. Yet Arizona averages only one counselor per about 600 students, while the national standard is one per 250.

“We are vastly underfunded,” she said. “It’s a critical role.”

And Gutierrez said nothing in this bill helps.

“All this does is put volunteers on a campus to talk about spirit, religion,” she said. “And that’s not going to help these kids who are harming themselves.”

Rep. Stephanie Stahl Hamilton, D-Tucson, warned of another potential problem.

Under Arizona law, teachers, counselors, therapists and social workers are all “mandatory reporters.” That means they are required to inform police or the Department of Child Safety if there is reason to believe a child has been abused or neglected. This can also include situations where a child says something to the person.

But the Stahl Hamilton pointed out the requirement to report specifically exempts clergy if they get a confidential communication or confession in connection with their religious duties. And that, she said, would include those who are working as volunteer chaplains.

“I find that very disconcerting that we are creating a loophole for clergy who are not held to the same standard, high standards, as our educators or any other school personnel,” Stahl Hamilton said.

But Rep. Alexander Kolodin, R-Scottsdale, said his own life experiences led him to believe the proposal was a good thing.

“Not everybody loves Jews,” Kolodin told colleagues. “And that was certainly the case while I was in school.” 

“And I kind of wish I’d had the opportunity to have a chaplain of my religion in school while I was dealing with some of that stuff because I think it could have helped,” he continued.