Key Points:

• HB2824 allows committee chairs to compel testimony without majority approval

• False testimony could result in perjury charges

• Democrats want a provision to hold legislators to the same standard

State lawmakers have approved a measure to allow any lawmaker who chairs a legislative committee to issue a subpoena and send out a sheriff’s deputy to arrest anyone who refuses to submit to questioning or produce documents.

The order would spell out that all testimony offered to any legislative panel would be presumed sworn, setting the stage for bringing perjury charges against anyone who is accused of lying.

The Republican sponsor of House Bill 2824 says it’s necessary to ensure that lawmakers can get answers they need promptly from members of the executive branch.

Less clear is whether Katie Hobbs, a Democratic governor, will pen her approval to a Republican measure that could force her agency heads and others to testify under threat of arrest.

Rep. Tony Rivero, R-Peoria, who crafted the measure, said the new powers are justified.

“I’m a believer in our system of government,” said Rivero. “I believe that there’s three branches of government.”

But Rivero told Capitol Media Services that the Legislature, as “the supreme lawmaking body” in the state, has a special role.

“In order for us to be effective lawmakers, we need an executive branch that’s responsive to our requests,” he said.

And, Rivero added, time is of the essence.

“We’re in two-year terms,” he said.

“I don’t want to waste any time,” he continued. “And, in conversations with other members, the bureaucracy hasn’t been as responsive as we’d like them to be.”

Rivero acknowledged there already is a procedure for compelling testimony or production of records.

That, however, requires a majority vote of either the House or the Senate to hold that person in contempt. And that, in turn, allows the sergeant at arms to go out and arrest that person.

“I think we need to have a more efficient process,” Rivero said. That means giving those who chair committees — who are currently all Republicans — the power to compel testimony without the approval of the majority.

“I think we can get more direct responses,” Rivero said. “And it will shorten the time that it takes to get information or have people testify.”

What it also would do is avoid what happened in 2021 when Senate President Karen Fann launched a probe of the 2020 election results after former President Joe Biden outpolled President Donald Trump in Arizona. Biden’s victory was aided by the fact that Maricopa County, where Republicans outnumbered Democrats at the time by more than 100,000, gave Biden 45,000 more votes than Trump.

Fann, a Prescott Republican, said she wasn’t trying to overturn the election but was simply responding to various concerns and claims about the accuracy of the results.

GOP senators issued a subpoena for the state’s largest county to produce all 2.1 million ballots cast, along with the actual tabulation machines and other equipment. When the supervisors didn’t comply, that led to a Republican-sponsored resolution to hold them in contempt.

That never happened when Republican Sen. Paul Boyer refused to provide the necessary 16th vote for the contempt citation, saying he preferred to work out the problems with the county on a more cooperative basis.

If Rivero’s measure had been law, Fann wouldn’t have needed the consent of the majority of the Senate to enforce the subpoena. But, he said, his legislation had nothing to do with what happened in 2021.

Rivero said he’s not concerned that giving subpoena power to individuals who chair committees would lead to abuse by any individual.

“We all have to work with each other,” said Rivero who, as chairman of the House International Trade Committee, would be able to issue subpoenas and demand people show up to testify or bring documents.

“If they’re not collaborating with members of their party, from the opposite party, they’re not going to be in a good situation,” he said.

And if he’s wrong?

“We’ll address it.”

But there’s more to the bill.

The House-passed measure picked up an additional provision when it was reviewed by the Senate.

Sen. Jake Hoffman, R-Queen Creek, added language to say that any testimony that is part of any legislative proceeding — including regular committee meetings — “shall be sworn testimony under the penalty of perjury.” 

“Quite frankly, I don’t believe that you should be able to come down to the Legislature and lie to us without there being a consequence,” Hoffman told colleagues, though he offered no specific examples.

Sen. Mitzi Epstein, D-Tempe, said she agrees with the concept but wondered if it goes far enough.

“How do you feel about people who are behind the dais speaking lies into the microphone?” Epstein asked Hoffman, referring to lawmakers themselves who, as members of the committee, make statements and pronouncements during hearings.

Hoffman agreed no one should be lying. But he said there’s a need to specially call out those lobbying for specific legislation.

“If you come down to testify before this committee essentially to influence the political process and to influence the force of government, either in your favor or protect yourself from it, you should not be able to lie to members of the Legislature when you do so,” Hoffman said.

Epstein said that should be a directive given to all when they start making pronouncements.

“Nobody should be speaking a lie into a microphone,” she said. “If you’re not sure of your source, then maybe you should specify that, whether you are a legislator who is trying to influence how our government works or a person who comes to testify.”

The measure now goes back to the House to approve the Senate-added changes.